Kelly Jackson Higgins, Executive Editor at Dark Reading (panel moderator)
This is a growing industry, but women are leaving. We need more people, so how do we empower the women we have?
Justine Bone, Independent Consultant
Joyce Brocaglia , Founder Alta Associates (executive search firm for security, etc)
Jennifer Imhoff-Dousharm, co-founder, dc408 and Vegas 2.0 hacker groups
Katie Moussouris, Chief Policy Officer, HackerOne
All of the women here come from different backgrounds - hacking (black hat and white), executives, startups, big companies.
Justine learned a big hard lesson when she dropped out of industry to work on her own startup - at the same time as having kids. While she was working her butt off, she wasn't showcasing her work or engaging with her peers - everybody thought she'd taken off time to have kids, totally unaware of the hard work she'd been doing. Lesson: always engage, promote, etc.
Joyce mentioned that she sees a lot of Employee Research Programs that are more checkboxes than actually beneficial programs for women. She noted that a company might pay Alta $100-$150,000 to find a new executive, but when she asks if they'll pay $100,000 for leadership program with a proven track record - the same company will say "we don't have that kind of money." (note: sigh)
Katie started up a bug bounty program at MS - it was hard. Big companies had vowed to never pay ransom for security bugs - she had to present this in a different way, to get it to line up with their goals, getting organizational empathy (when is the best time for devs to get vulns). Hence, IE 11 Beta Bug Bounty - which ran for 30 days. Alas, folks would hold on to their vulns until after beta was closed, forcing MS to release vulnerability reports.
We have a shortage of engineers, why aren't women coming in? Jennifer said she doesn't see it as a pipeline problem - she noted that women that grew up in the 80s were exposed to computers (yay, Oregon Trail) and didn't hit the "cootie" program until they entered corporate America. It's scary to be the only person like you in the room - you don't realize it until you are that only woman. It doesn't matter how strong you are or how much you lean in, you have to carry that weight of diversity.
Justine noted the "DefCon problem" - it's annoying that everyone asks you "who are you here with? who's your boyfriend" - it gets exhausting. (Note: YES - happened to me every year, after my bf & I broke up and I continued to go alone). Explaining over and over that you deserve to be there, what you do, that you really are technical.
Katie noted there's a challenge as well that you are expected to be a representative of ALL women, irregardless of how different we all are. She hates the question: "what's it like being a woman in security?" - stop asking her about the least important aspect of her job and her personality, she is so much more than just "a woman in security."
Joyce notes that she sees job advertisements all the time that will literally use the male gendered pronoun, "he will be responsible for X, Y, Z". Knowing that men will apply for a job where they only meet 6/10 of the qualifications, and women require 9/10 before they will apply.. adding "he" to the description is one thing off the bat that the woman will not be. Confidence matters as much as competence - men tend to have more confidence, which may help explain why women are not making it to the higher levels.
Companies need to invest in younger women to make these changes - they are an investment. Women and men need sponsors, but companies should make sure that it's not only men getting them. If women are raising their hands for stretch assignments, but getting skipped over... is it their fault?
Justine noted that we also need to be willing to accept help - if someone tries to bring you into the "old boys club" - GO! Joyce cautioned, though, don't wait for it.
Justine says she's always criticized for her travel for work, by friends, family, etc. How could she leave her kids? She notes she's on these flights with a ton of men doing the same thing - and nobody criticizes them.
Can you have work and family? Yes, but you need help - nannies, families, etc. "Women have the capacity to multitask and get shit done," Joyce.
Personal space at these events is important. Katie had a run in with "Handsy McMansy" last night - fortunately, she's adept at profanity to throw at him. The men around though seemed shell shocked and didn't know what to do. "I don't need somebody to fight for me, I need them to fight with me."
Joyce had a run in last night that was similar with a male executive, sloppy drunk, asking dumb questions and hanging on people. If a woman did that - she would be shamed by the men around.
Joyce noted that women still don't get taken seriously at booths at events like RSA. People don't want to talk to the women, even if they may be the one making purchasing decisions.
Justine looked at the Black Hat review board this morning - there is only ONE woman on the review board. Not saying the men on the board are not skilled and talented, but they need diversity.
Joyce noted that women need to submit talks, start with smaller conferences and get practice, confidence, etc.
Men should talk to women at conferences - acknowledge them, don't question why they are here - but actually engage. Like, "what do you do at your company?" vs "who's your boyfriend?"
Joyce noted that older generations of men are lacking the emotional intelligence to understand why what they are doing or saying is not okay. She has high hopes for the younger generations, who grew up with working mom's, etc.
Katie noted that women need to stop denigrating yourself - the world will do that for your. Speak about your work in positive tones, not "well, I don't do kernel work, I don't do... ". Believe in yourself and don't be afraid to tell the world about what you do.
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